The paper toy network

Commercial Jobs?

OK, let's put some fuel on the fire and discuss something more seriously that the ban of cheese ;)

With the rise in popularity of papertoys it was bound to happen that us papertoy designers were going to be approached for commercial jobs. I already did a couple and have a few more in the pipeline as well. Which is a great reward for all the effort we have put in designing our toys and make them available online for free. I am getting paid fairly for these jobs, because the companies involved understand the effort that is put into designing papertoys and approach the collaboration as professional as it deserved to be.

But I feel there's a problem arising as well. Often I get requests from certain companies to work on a commercial project, but already in the initial e-mail they are indicating there's no budget, it will be a nice way to promote myself, or they ask me to work on some concepts and if they like it they might collaborate with me. I even have the suspicion that certain companies are shopping around different papertoy designers to see who is willing to work for the least amount of money, or even for free, and pick that one.

In my opinion this is wrong!

First of all, these companies DO see the value of your papertoys as a commercial product, otherwise they would not initiated the project and contacted you. Unless they are a charity organisation or something similar they are planning somehow to make money out of it. So they should pay for it accordingly. Regardless of their 'limited' budget.

Also, it doesn't matter if you see yourself as beginner or experienced papertoy designer. They do like your work, otherwise they would not have contacted you. Apparently you already did some excellent self-promotion, so that argument becomes invalid as well.

And then something I've been tricked into a couple of times before. Speculative work. You spend a couple of days (and nights) creating some ideas and concepts to try to get a job and then you find out they've asked dozens of other designers as well and just pick the one they like the most. So you've wasted a lot of time on something that will not be used and you don't even get paid for all the time you spent on it. Believe me, it sucks and has a seriously demotivating effect.

So what now?

Well, I think we're with too few to start a papercrafters union :)
But we might need to boost our confidence a bit more and don't sell ourselves too easily. I think there needs to be a clear distinction between the work we put online for free and the commercial work we create for companies. And somehow we need to communicate this clearly to the outside world.

The discussion on NPT about selling papertoys has become more active again lately, and I indicated early in that discussion that I thought commercial jobs were a good way to make some money out of your designs. But it will only work if we all stick together and start seeing the value of our own work. Do not underestimate your own talent!

Any thoughts and suggestions? Agree? Disagree? Let the discussion begin.

And don't forget... Enjoy!. Designing papertoys should stay a fun activity and this is NICE papertoys.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by MARKO ZUBAK on August 25, 2009 at 11:40am: Just have to ad that this mail turned out not to be appropriate example for this discussion. Sorry for any inconvenience.
(That doesn't mean I'm going to do Britney toy, but I gave permission to use my template).; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Scott Schaller on August 26, 2009 at 4:41pm: I too got the e-mail, but was unable to work on anything in the amount of time given. This would have been work and I would have expected to be paid.

Funny enough, the link to the sample of papertoys they were looking for was a picture from the book roll-out at Mobius in LA and in the center of the picture was my student Greg Madden. This tells me that people are looking at the NPT site closely enough to pickup on the trends and how to find people and images. I would be interested to know if anyone actually took this assignment.

Also, does it bug anyone else that the vinyl toy guys are starting to invade our turf?
There is an exhibition going on at MunkyKing in LA of papertoys, only they only asked vinyl toy people to create customs for the show (at least I think since I didn't recognize any of the names). Check it out at: http://www.vinylpulse.com/2009/08/phoneticontrol-thought-processor-...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Hamlyn-Harris on August 26, 2009 at 8:51pm: Great discussion topic, obviously one that many of us are passionate about.

I would like to add something about original work vs. fan art. I think Cubee craft models or fan art based on famous characters are part of the problem here. Entertainment companies have realised that a free paper toy of Optimus Prime does as much to promote a new movie as a big budget ad campaign. And they want a piece of the action. There is nothing wrong with fan art but if you make a model based on Indiana Jones, then you have no rights to anything (you can't sell it because you don't own it - even if you spent 3 weeks designing the model).

I think the general perception of these companies (advertising and marketing executives) is that we will design the models for free or for next to nothing. Basically because they do not see the value of what we do. So many people make fan art for free, I guess they don't need to pay anyone - hence the shopping around as a few of you mentioned.

Everyone passionate about this topic should put your energy into creating their own original characters and designs. that is the first step in getting the recognition we all deserve.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by MARKO ZUBAK on August 27, 2009 at 3:40am: What about paper toys wearing famous brands logos? Were they made for free as well or they were part of paid projects?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Hamlyn-Harris on August 27, 2009 at 4:46am: It is hard to say Marko, Someone is making money from it and it is probably not the artist.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Matīss Iesalnieks on August 27, 2009 at 5:07am: I think it is only a problem if try to sell your papertoys. As long the papertoys are free and they don't misrepresent the the company they probably will see it as free advertising.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Hamlyn-Harris on August 27, 2009 at 5:36am: This is kind of my point and the point of the discussion. I think spending time creating a paper toy of a famous character (that you don't own) is part of the problem (not the whole problem - just part of it). Fan art is so prevalent that the marketing industry knows they don't need to pay for custom toys - they rely on fans to make and distribute them, creating the "buzz" they are after.

Marshall's discussion started with the problem of designers not being paid properly, or at all, for their hard work. So, I don't agree that it is only a problem if you sell you toys. Think of it like comparing a cover band with an original band. If cover bands played for free it would make it harder for original artists to get a paid gig.

I just want to encourage everyone to create their own, original characters. If someone wants to pay you to make a toy of a movie character that is great- do it. But, why would someone pay for what they can get for free?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Matīss Iesalnieks on August 29, 2009 at 1:22pm: I was thinking about using brand logo's in your designs. but nervertheless it is spot on; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by cubeecraft on September 3, 2009 at 11:26am: @ Thomas Hamlyn-Harris

"This is kind of my point and the point of the discussion. I think spending time creating a paper toy of a famous character (that you don't own) is part of the problem (not the whole problem - just part of it). Fan art is so prevalent that the marketing industry knows they don't need to pay for custom toys - they rely on fans to make and distribute them, creating the "buzz" they are after."

I disagree. If they relied on us doing it for free they would be bust and if they relied on them doing it at all they would definitely pay for it. The truth is they want it, and are willing to pay for it.

The problem is artists agreeing to do work for little or no compensation.

"Why would someone pay for what they can get for free?"

Because they want to support the artist or because they want to be able to use the art work legally in another venue.

I think people should do their own original stuff. I have a lot of original stuff unreleased at this point. I would liken it to a comic book artist. They don't start out doing their own stuff. Often comic writers do not either. They gain recognition by doing other peoples characters. Even before they are professional artists they are likely doing fan art. By working on other material they gain note and eventually can produce their own work. Would any of the creators of Image Comics been able to launch that company without having previously worked at DC or Marvel and gained a following?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by cubeecraft on September 3, 2009 at 9:28am: There is a possibility of receiving a cease and desist, sold or not.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Luke 'Glood' on August 27, 2009 at 8:20am: I have seen cubeecraft models in play station mags and I asked cubeecraft about it and he had no idea. I think if they are gonna use ur toys they should at least ask you; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by cubeecraft on September 3, 2009 at 9:35am: Sorry, at the time I was under a NDA. The Cubees were used with both my permission and the permission of the guest artist's piece they used.

I do get a lot of e-mails about people using my work without permission in a variety of ways though. :(; ▶ Reply to This